chotherock ([info]chotherock) wrote,
@ 2006-08-07 13:00:00
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Current mood: should be working
Current music:it's toooo quieeet in heere

Just my thoughts....
I would like to preface both of my little rants with saying I need to do more research.

1. confederate flag/memorials for confederate soldiers.
I am against the flying of the Confederate flag on the tops of Southern state capitals. Flags are symbolic. The Confederate flag symbolizes many things to many different groups of people. Racism, racial oppression, northern oppression, the good old days, slavery, fallen Confederate soldiers, racial pride. I think the flag as a symbol of the sacrifices of Confederate soldiers is a valid one. However, I think the flag as a symbol of slavery and centuries of racial violence against blacks by their white neighbors outweighs the valid symbolism when we are talking about the image a state wants to project. Flags can have competing meanings, and actually, I think it's good for us, as a region, to keep up the dialogue surrounding the confederate flag, if for no other reason than to keep in mind the continuing racial issues and divides we face, and why we continue to face them. (apologies for atrocious sentence structure)

Why on earth does a liberal, secular, urban, Texan think the Confederate flag as a symbol for the sacrifices of the Confederate soldiers is valid? I think if I did some research I would find that I have some family members who were soldiers. This is of course unsubstantiated because I haven't done any actual research. My family (with the exception of my paternal grandmother) are all Southerners of Scotch-Irish history, which means they immigrated to the southern half of the Unites States and the Appalachian valley in the 17th and 18th centuries. Until the GI Bill and my grandparents' generation, they were working class at best. Considering a large portion of the Confederate fighting strength was poor white men who didn't own slaves and could never own slaves, I think it's highly probable that some of my peeps were in this group.

I don't know the numbers b/c I am not up on my civil war history, but considering that many of the soldiers didn't own slaves and were only fighting under threat of being rounded up as deserters, it seems fair to me that some southerners continue to wave the confederate flag. They kind of remind me of Vietnam veterans. The war they fought was unjust, but their lives meant something. (though admittedly, if anyone looks to the flag solely for this reason, it's somewhat misguided because the same flag that symbolizes wealthy, landed oppression of blacks symbolizes restriction and abuse of poor whites. which leads me to the point below that most of them aren't supporting the flag because of its connections to the soldiers, but because of the larger Confederate ideals, which creates problems when you do want to support the soldiers without condoning the war...funny, kinda like now)

Alright, I think that's enough. I could go into why lower to middle class whites are the ones in all the hate groups and continue to vote against their interests (something about wealthy white people telling them for centuries, "you crackers ain't worth shit but, jesus h. christ, at least you're not black...," and the ridiculous worship of the American dream that they might have money one day and when they do they don't want to pay their taxes either, regardless of the fact that there is very limited upward social mobility in this country, GAH!)

ANYWAY, in this very limited sense, I am totally OK with public memorials for the Confederate soldiers. Not the Confederate ideal, but for the individual soldiers. To me, that's the difference b/w the flag and a memorial. Now, the problem with the memorials, is that the a-holes who usually fight for such things are the same ones who wanted South Carolina to fly the flag, and often put tall, pointy, white hoods on their heads.

Which actually brings me to something else. White racial pride is such bullshit. There's no such thing as a unifying white experience, the only exception being the large, significant one of white privilege. Which is nothing to be proud of. I see these neo-Nazi, Klan fools in documentaries talking about the good old days when they ruled the roost. Idiots!!! They would have been, and in many cases still are the modern equivalent of, dirt-poor sharecroppers with no prospects and who wouldn't even be able to vote if it weren't for Andrew Jackson's hateful ass. (jackson, while reprehensible in pretty much every other way, did open up the franchise to poor white men). Black Americans being free would not affect their situation.

Wow. That is way more than I planned on writing. I hope it made sense and that someone read at least part of it. It was so long, one on gay marriage might have to wait until tomorrow.

But I will leave you with this, has anyone heard the song "I hear the bells" by Mike something or other of Soul Coughing? It's a good tune. It has a rolling guitar line and a compelling, if simplistic beginning. But the lyrics are a problem. Here's a sample:
"you snooze, you loose. Well, I snozzed* and lost." You can't just make up words, ESPECIALLY when you make them up just so they correspond with a stupid, old, cliche. Ugh. That said, download the song, pay no attention to the lyrics, and imagine Logan telling Veronica what an epic love they share.

*snozzed rhyming with the first syllable in Fozzy bear, who I was in love with from age 3-5.




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[info]jackiebot
2006-08-07 06:47 pm UTC (link)
I have to say that all the collegiate brainwashing in the world didn't extinguish my belief in the American dream. Upward mobility is obviously not easy and doesn't happen for a lot of people. The idea is that, it's actually possible. Look at my family. I know you'll think it's a different situation... but they fleed from the war and struggled for years to land where they are now... comfortable and suburban. It wasn't an inherited right for them. I know that for the most part, the rich beget rich and the poor, poor. But hard work does actually pay off here (as opposed to in Egypt, where Christians eventually hit a glass ceiling) . I think it's too fatalistic to think otherwise.

As far as confederate flag memorials go, I do agree that most people who display them in the south do so as a racist gesture. It's definitely in bad taste and pretty much advertising that you are a redneck. I think that memorials are fine. Also, in Denton, we have some remnants of pre-civil war Texas. There's a "whites and colored" fountain downtown. I don't think we should remove things like that, because it is a part of history. It does no good to erase these monuments and pretend that racism does not now, nor has ever existed.

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[info]jackiebot
2006-08-08 03:21 am UTC (link)
*fled

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(Anonymous)
2006-08-11 11:13 pm UTC (link)
what about gay marriage. i read that entire thing on confederate flags and history, which was painful. (its not that you're a bad writer, its just that i can't read.) anyways. where's the rant about gay marriage. i was promised 2. and when i say "promised," i mean by your lj.

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(Anonymous)
2006-08-11 11:14 pm UTC (link)
ps i'm sure you figured it by the poor english and misspelled words, but that was your little sister.

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(Anonymous)
2006-08-11 11:14 pm UTC (link)
holy crap that spam robot challenge thing took me 3 tries.

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